Monday, 20 April 2009

Decide 'dear'.

Like I'm going to do what you choose anyway...let's just do this for the pretence of 'democracy' okay?

What do you want?
Blogger comments
Haloscan thing
Spank (comment thing,honestly!)


202 comments:

1 – 200 of 202   Newer›   Newest»
JG said...

In this 'democracy', do you get a vote too, Touta?

:)

Touta said...

The most important one... I'll decide whether i agree with you or not...

Touta has the right to Veto. :D

Abbas Hawazin عباس هوازن said...

you know what i voted for.

attawie said...

LOL

That's the same policy I have in my blog, that's why bloggers rox :D

attawie said...

oh oh and what about a chatbox :D

so we'll have another place to spam.

hi Abbas, we posted the same time, spooky ;)

Touta said...

abbas,
surely you can't be responsible for *both* votes?
And whos is the -ee and who is the -er?

attawie,
if only we could rule the world...if only...
and cbox? thats just to much technology in one day, i'll arrange for it tommorrow or something. :D

Jeffrey said...

I imagine Abbas voted for what is the ugliest and has the most banning features.

Hm. Sounds like life under Saddam, Abbas.

*

Khalid from iraqiblogupdates.blogspot.com/ said...

Touta,

I have every hope that you won't use your veto power. I feel there's a good chance that you may accept the outcome of this democratic process but it's up to you.

Touta said...

jeffrey,
Why's abbas in bold?
Perhaps you+abbas=trouble because you two are actually alike.:P

khalid,
since the comment section is more for the readers than for me, i will let the democratic take its course. :)

Khalid from iraqiblogupdates.blogspot.com/ said...

Touta,

That's nice and I'll put it on the record for you because I'm -thinking- of ....... no not yet

khalid jarrar said...

"(comment thing,honestly!) "

**tries not to show that he is laughing and fakes a disappointed face** touta, you terrible, terrible iraqi! you are grounded!

C.H. said...

Looks good Touta...I voted for haloscan, but now I want to change my vote because I remembered when I tried to install haloscan...it proved to be sort of hard.

Anyway, you rule the blog so I guess it doesn't matter ;)

Just kidding, I know you take your reader opinions seriously :D

C.H. said...

Hmmm...these are too separate Khalids, right?

attawie said...

*evil smile*

:D

Jeffrey said...

Touta,

The word "Abbas" was in bold so that anyone passing by with a bow and arrow would have an easier target to hit.

*thoooonk*

*

C.H. said...

Everyone--Touta, JG, Jeffrey, etc.

I have decided that I am going to start a second blog, using wordpress...a friend of mine is using wordpress and I just have to try it!

Anyway, I'm putting it together, and when I have it running, I hope you guys might check it out.

What do you think? Is this a good idea or should I stick with my other blog? I'm hoping to write a lot about my upcoming trip to Nepal in this blog :D

JG said...

and has the most banning features.Jeffrey,

You've handed out plenty of bans yourself.

C.H.,

Go for it. Personally, I'm too lazy to update one blog, never mind two. But if you want to keep your travel stories separate then why not? When are you going to Nepal?

Khalid from iraqiblogupdates.blogspot.com/ said...

C.H.,

Yes, you are right.People are entitled to be different and as such we should be celebrating our differences. In any democracy we must demonstrate our respect for the other people's points of view. So if you meant that then I would say it doesn't bother me

Jeffrey said...

JG,

You've handed out plenty of bans yourself.Not true. Very few, in fact. And the bans were only temporary, lifted after a few weeks. No one, I believe, is currently banned. I am NOT against bans. I have been banned more than once, sometimes for good reason, sometimes not.

*

nadia said...

I like blogger, but I don't really care.

Just don't let people use your popularity to spam your comments section with unrelated crap and/or link to their own shitty website, I hate that.

dave said...

what the hell is Spank comment? I tried googling it and it turns out typing spank into google wasn't the best idea i've ever had. So I gave up and just went with blogger.

JG said...

Jeffrey,

You banned me twice. Yes, they were temporary, but my comments were relevant to the post and weren't attacking anybody. You deleted them. I would imagine Abbas has done less banning them yourself. But I'll leave it at that as I don't want to clog up with thread with a pointless back and forth.

Nadia,

Just don't let people use your popularity to spam your comments section with unrelated crap and/or link to their own shitty website, I hate that.----------

Totally agree!

Jeffrey said...

JG,

You were being as ass, from my perspective. And yes, the bans were temporary, just to make you think about whether you wanted to continue being an ass or comment on my blog without playing the utter dick like everyone else. You chose the latter. Good move.

*

Touta said...

khalid iraqi update,
oh, i have to know what you're thinking now! I'm curious. :)

Khalid J,
ahh *slowly walks upstairs to room slamming door*
It was with good intention honestly. :)

CH,
you have a vote a day, so you can change it, :) as long aas you change it reasonably ;)

attawie,
tattle tale. :P
we can still rule the world right?

Jeffrey,
I noticed you didn't deny that you and abbas share a similiar personality. hmmmm

JG,
i think people should be allowed to do and say what they want. If you are banned, i say use another computer and spam away. :D

nadia,
I'll make sure that no one, absolutley no one makes money from this website. :P

dave,
not a good idea. I'm glad you didnt type it into google images, that would have been a catastrophe. :D It does exist. ;)

Khalid from iraqiblogupdates.blogspot.com/ said...

Touta,

I'm thinking of writing some thing about you.

Jeffrey and JG,

Could you not get your act together and work for peace?

JG said...

Touta,

I don't really care if Jeffrey bans me. I was just pointing out his hypocrisy in suggesting Abbas always bands people when he's not averse to the practice himself!

Khalid (updates),

Myself and Jeffrey don't like each other but instead of patching things up we've agreed to maintain our mutual antipathy.

C.H. said...

I think Jeffrey and JG show there friendship by arguing...a sign that things have deteriorated would be if they decided to get along ;)

Jeffrey said...

Khalid Ibrahim,

Could you not get your act together and work for peace?I'm not a big fan of "peace." I will not be working for it.

JG,

I think bloggers should ban when it's necessary. Sometimes, as I've said above, I deserved to be banned, other times not. With Abbas, the Kid, he never removes bans because he simply can't deal with a real opponent. That's the mark of a coward.

*

JG said...

I'm not a big fan of "peace." I will not be working for it.---------

Huh, an honest warmonger? A very rare thing, that.

Touta said...

khalid,
Why i'd love to see an outside perspective on how messed up i am. :D

JG,
like i said before, hypocrisy exists everywhere. ;)

Jeffrey,
And what do you two 'argue' about anyway?

Khalid from iraqiblogupdates.blogspot.com/ said...

Jeffrey,

I'm not a big fan of "peace." I will not be working for it.

Does your declaration that you are not working for peace applies Only to your re-ship with JG or it’s a general announcement?

Khalid from iraqiblogupdates.blogspot.com/ said...

Touta,

Article 19 of the universal declaration of human rights, I'm free to write a story about you.

An observer sees what you can't see.

Do you want it in Arabic or English?

Touta said...

khalid,
yes exactly, its very good to look at yourself from an outside perspective. Are you doing this for all iraqi bloggers? its a very good idea. :D

ibkeefak arabi lo ingleezi, you can ask the other readers if they want to read it. :)

JG said...

Of course we'd like to read it. This would be made easier (for me!) if it was in English. ;)

Indeed hypocrisy is everywhere. I'm a worse hypocite than most, as my housemates often remind me.

I just like needling Jeffrey, and apparently he finds it "fun" to "kick me in the ass" too! Tis' all harmless banter...

Abbas Hawazin عباس هوازن said...

What's wrong with you, Jeffrey, what crawled up your butthole lately? You seem to be not in the mood for subtlety. I banned you because you are such a stupid racist obnoxious fuck. But I guess you can still comment, because you did the other day.

'ugliest' are you suggesting per chance that you don't like my new re-design? Habibi....

Khalid from iraqiblogupdates.blogspot.com/ said...

Touta,

I have already started writing about the Iraqi bloggers, please have a look:

http://kahlid-iraqi.blogspot.com/2009/04/blog-post.html

You're a public figure now so people need no permission to write about you. However, because I follow my own principles and the rules that I set up for myself, if you feel not comfortable about it then I won't write it.

It needs lot of time going through all your writings and comments in order to find out more about your characters so I have to find time to do it.


JG,

Thanks for your support. It's possible to have it in both language Arabic and English.

Khalid from iraqiblogupdates.blogspot.com/ said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Khalid from iraqiblogupdates.blogspot.com/ said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Touta said...

JG,
I am a hypocrite too (maybe we should all start a support group), but i don't like some people's denial of ignorance and/or hypocrisy *cough jeffrey*.

Khalid,
that is actually very interesting to read, i honestly don't mind, and thanks for asking. :)
"It needs lot of time going through all your writings and comments in order to find out more about your characters so I have to find time to do it."-thats very hard working and detailed, :D.


hehehe, i have got to admit, I'm kind of enjoying the whole scrutinizing jeffrey on this comment section, I'm intrigued to where it leads... :P
Carry on. :D
.

JG said...

LOL!

Well, since Jeffrey is soon wrapping up his blog perhaps someone should write an obituary! ;)

Touta said...

No no, you've got it wrong JG, he's
retiring.
:))

Jeffrey said...

Kid,

I banned you because you are such a stupid racist obnoxious fuck.*

Obnoxious fuck? Yes, that's true. Stupid and racist? No, not true.

*

C.H. said...

Touta,

Are the polls closing yet? We've had a few days to vote and now we are anxiously awaiting the decision from our supreme leader!

...or maybe you are going to keep us waiting for as long as you please.

I changed my vote BTW...I'm all for keeping blogger comments, although I should mention that I have just started a new wordpress blog. I will post the link if you don't mind me spamming ;)

Khalid from iraqiblogupdates.blogspot.com/ said...

It's getting messy over here!

I see it as a hotel owned by touta and rooms are given -free of charge- to residents coming from the 5 continents.

At the end of every single night, while some residents half asleep relaxing or thinking, pillows & shoes- fights will erupt in the single corridor.

The Iraqis have many wise quotes to describe a situation like this.

If the situation getting worst tonight then I'll try to translate for you some of them.

JG said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
JG said...

Stupid and racist? No, not true.--------

Despite referring to Iraq as "Satan's Sandbox" on Mohammed's blog, and adding that you don't want to ever visit Iraq because "Iraq is for people like you, Mohammed"

--

Stupid? No. Racist? Yes.

Jeffrey said...

JG,

Explain to me how calling IRAQ -- a country of Arabs, Kurds, Assyrians, and several other ethnic groups -- "Satan's Sandbox" is racist?

And that was written, it should be noted, specifically to piss off a particular blogger in one of the tens of thousands of conversations in the Iraqi blogosphere over the last six years.

*

Khalid from iraqiblogupdates.blogspot.com/ said...

Back to the hotel thing:

The owner (touta,) as a democrat, has called for a poll giving the residenst the chance to vote on one of three options:

1. To make the place a luxury full board hotel in which you can say whatever you want

2. B & B + D and d stands for democracy. Say whatever you want but you're only given an Iraqi breakfast of Shorbat Adas, i.e lentil soup.

3. A simple guest house in which no food is given but "zaknabot" (Turkish poison introduced to the Iraqis in last centuries). You could sneak into the guest house but you're warned that elimination is going to be used all the time

In general the police force (also touta in our case) is doing very little to deal with the eventualities. In actual fact the police is enjoying a good "laugh" at what's going on in her place.

attawie said...

I like your description Khalid, I hope the "owner of the hotel would give us the luxurious place to hang out and enjoy her company.

JG said...

Sorry Jeffrey, but your comments on that particular thread were inexcusable. The post was about how tough Mohammed's life was at that time and you - being only interested in 'good news' stories from Iraq - were outraged that the post didn't fit with your preferred discourse.

If you need me to explain to you how calling Iraq "Satan's Sandbox" and saying it is only for "people like Mohammed" is racist you're more messed up than I imagined.

Heh.

*

Khalid from iraqiblogupdates.blogspot.com/ said...

Thanks atawie for your kind words and yes, I agree with you we need the luxury full board hotel.

Back to buisness, the AP, Associated Press, says a fight erupted today, in the early morning along the corridor.

Jeffrey said...

JG,

Listen, if you want to debate that issue (although it's pretty played out), let's take the discussion over to IBC and not muck about on Touta's comments page, okay?

*

C.H. said...

Jeffrey, JG,

You should take it to IBC...I consider both of you my friends, but Touta is maintaining one of the last Iraqi blogs with good-hearted discussions and with a generally friendly atmosphere.

If you want to see what happens when all hell breaks loose on a blog, go visit Iraqi Mojo's site. Remember how great his comments pages used to be? Jeffrey, you know what I am talking about.

Touta, you might have to bring down the hammer and enforce some rules! Hhhhh...maybe democracy needs to go on hold, haha.

You have done a great job with your blog and you have a lot of great commentators who come to visit.

Khalid from iraqiblogupdates.blogspot.com/ said...

I think touta's hotel is big enough to accommodate everybody.

All what we need is to honsetly accept that we all make mistakes but we should learn to forgive and forget + be a bit nicer to each other.

Life should go on as long as we accept that all the residents of this hotel are nice and respectable people.

C.H. said...

Sounds good, Khalid :)

Khalid from iraqiblogupdates.blogspot.com/ said...

Thanks C.H.

The question is:

WHERE IS TOUTA?

Has anybody seen her?

C.H. said...

I think she might be taking an exam...perhaps she will tell us when she gets back.

Khalid from iraqiblogupdates.blogspot.com/ said...

I hope that on touta's arrival we'll have some peace to give her the chance to announce the result of the poll and I also hope that we'll be able to find another fascinating topic.

C.H. said...

Yeah me too...I will be checking in a little later to see what is going on. It looks like blogger comments are in the lead, but you never know, since Touta gets to make the decision, lol ;)

JG said...

CH,

Touta is maintaining one of the last Iraqi blogs with good-hearted discussions and with a generally friendly atmosphere.---------

You're right. My lips are sealed, well you know what I mean! I could not be arsed taking it to 'IBC' so I'll just leave it where it is.

Do give us the link to your new blog when you're up and running. The travel stories from Nepal should be good...

Jeffrey said...

C.H.,

Did you read my last comment? I agree with you. I offered to discuss the issue with JG over at IBC.

*

Khalid from iraqiblogupdates.blogspot.com/ said...

Thanks J.C. for the sealed lips and Jeffrey, I honestly hope you make a similar wise decision because there's no benefit to anybody in discussing this further

Thanks

Touta said...

Suprisingly I don't mind, and i have been laughing heartily at the comments left- it is a variety of arguments lashed here and there with no structure- this is why if you want to open a successful discussion, you need to focus on one topic and ONE topic only.

(says hotel owner touta, who is giving FREE FULL BOARD to all inhabitants- today's special- racism and ignorance in regard to Iraq and iraqis. :D)

Now, so far all ideas i have got is: I'm running a hotel, Jeffrey is racist, jeffrey isn't racist, ch hopes i won't turn into a tyrant in regard to votes, attawie can see me as a hotel owner (i.e she sees me as a old snobby guy), JG has evidence, and I have am leaving up to you to address one topic of your choice.

:D :D :D

Khalid from iraqiblogupdates.blogspot.com/ said...

touta welcome back!
To tell you the truth the hotel without you worths nothing.

Also, peace is spreading all along the corridor.

JG said...

When it comes down to it, we're excellent guests, very well behaved! ;)

Khalid from iraqiblogupdates.blogspot.com/ said...

Yes JG and I'm waiting Jeffrey to make a statement.

The hotel is too quiet so it seems we'll have some sleep.

JG said...

Khalid,

Sssshhhhhh... stop talking, I'm trying to sleep!

Touta said...

Hahaha,
we'll whisper won't we khalid?
*whis his sssssss*
:D

I hope you enjoy your stay at Hotel Nakhal, I hope you enjoy the complimentary gifts ;) and sleep comfortably wherever you are. *awwwww*
hehehe.

Khalid from iraqiblogupdates.blogspot.com/ said...

ssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss
ssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss
ssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss
Peaple are in bed
ssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss
ssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss
sssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss

Lynnette In Minnesota said...

i have been laughing heartily at the comments left-Well, thank God! lol! I was starting to think I was the only one, after I read the last few comments. While I don't go in for the really sleazy sexual innuendos in comments, I don't mind a little dust up now and then. ;)

I have am leaving up to you to address one topic of your choice.Okay, I'll take you up on your offer. :D

Jeffrey is racistNonsense. No more than Abbas is. Obnoxious at times to the point of wanting to hit him over the head with a frying pan? Perhaps. But racist? No.

Now, now, Touta, don't laugh, I actually know someone whose girlfriend did hit him over the head with a frying pan. No doubt he was being very annoying. :D

And you have a point about Jeffrey and Abbas being alike. Or at least that Abbas has been doing a good job at times of emulating Jeffrey. (Here I would remind Abbas about the Confessions of a Malamute incident from way back when.)

Jeffrey and his fellow bloggers have put in a lot of effort over at IBC to get the Iraqi bloggers publicity. A racist wouldn't give a damn about them.

As their recent post mentions, their blog started as a counter to those Iraqi bloggers who didn't enable comments sections. What is the point of having a blog with no give and take? But IBC morphed into an entity that tried to encourage the open flow of ideas. Even if that encouragement took the form of what some may have considered over the top posts, they got people's attention.

People may disagree with some of the posts they have written, certainly, but in a free country you will never find people agreeing all the time. To discuss, to argue, to share ideas and feelings is central to the working of a democracy.

Satan's Sandbox? Why is that racist? Various factions in Iraq have been mired in a vicious war for power. They were chopping off heads and drilling holes in people. If evil wasn't walking the streets of Iraq, I don't know what was.

As for the Mohammed comment, I would have to read the entire thread to get the context. My guess it had something to do with Mohammed's tendency to be pessimistic at times, or his talking about "real Iraqis". *shrug* Sounds like Jeffrey was just trying to piss him off.

Okay, there's my 2 cents.

Did I wake anyone up? :D

P.S.

Touta, have you thought of trying Wordpress? I know someone who uses that, and it's a wonderful environment for smileys.

Touta said...

khalid,
fine fine i'll lower my voice. :D

lynnette,
unfortunatley obnoxiousness and ignorance easily leads into racism, which is probably what happened at mohammed's. I'm not claiming i'm not ignorant, but i have to say that even personally, obnoxiousness or arrogance on my part has led to me stereotyping (racism), and so i need harder evidence. :P

In their writing styles, i think abbas and jeffrey couldn't be more different, and what i meant in similiarity is their patience problem with each other ;)

"Now, now, Touta, don't laugh, I actually know someone whose girlfriend did hit him over the head with a frying pan. No doubt he was being very annoying. :D"
hahahah, he got off lightly i tell you. I once saw a women throw a mug, a glass and a knife at her husband... i almost laughed it looked so surreal.

I miss smiley's as well...wordpress you say... :)

JG said...

Lynnette,

*walks slowly out of his room in PJs with a cranky expression on his face*

Your incessant chatting has woken me up, woman!

But now that I'm awake I suppose I might as well put the kettle on and join in the chat.

A racist wouldn't give a damn about them [Iraqi bloggers]---------

Yeah, and he doesn't give a damn about them. He's had an agenda from the start. He's been great buddies with the Iraq The Minion set and been hostile to those who dare to blog about *bad* things! Imagine bad things happening during war eh! Fancy that!

How dare Mohammed be so pessimistic eh! He needed to be told what's what by a middle class armchair general sitting in the comfort of his safe and secure home in New York.

*shakes head*

Sounds like Jeffrey was just trying to piss him off.Yeah, what a charming guy. Trying to piss someone off who is already utterly miserable from living with the fear, uncertainty, and insecurity of a war zone.

His full comment:

"Mo Baby!

LOOK OUT! Here's comes another sandstorm!

Heh heh heh.

I always enjoy listening to your feverish tales of misery. Iraqis always get the leaders (and blistering heat and sandstorms) that they deserve, it seems.

And no, I will not be going to Iraq. Why in the world would anyone want to go to that hellhole? I've traveled in the Americas, Europe, and Asia, but no thanks on Iraq. There's a good reason Iraq will never be a tourist destination. Satan's sandbox is only for those like yourself, Mohammed."
Now where did I get the idea there was a hint of racism there?

I'm actually surprised you'd defend this, Lynnette. Perhaps I shouldn't be.

http://last-of-iraqis.blogspot.com/2008/07/living-hell.html

Khalid from iraqiblogupdates.blogspot.com/ said...

Touta,

You're the owner, the last one to sleep.

It was such a busy day for many residents who tried to deal with the issues raised.

In general, I agree with you that we should be focused on one topic at a time or we run the risk of losing the plot.

Abbas Hawazin عباس هوازن said...

JG,

You pwned Jeffrey, the racist in denial, my salutations to you.

Jeffrey said...

JG,

Hey, I asked you TWICE to take this topic over to IBC and not muck up Touta's comments page. What the hell are you doing?

*

JG said...

Abbas,

Any minute now he'll start telling us how his family is like the United Nations!

Well, only one week to go... ;)

Khalid from iraqiblogupdates.blogspot.com/ said...

We have had enough of this so I'm going to Al Wak WAk island for a week or so to get some rest. I'll miss the hotel though. SALAM

Touta said...

well,
i honestly don't mind where you have this conversation jeffrey, ;)

Touta said...

khalid,
enjoy wak wak island, hehe, the hotel will miss you too.

attawie said...

So? what's next?
people are leaving! and we're still clueless about the decision.

I enjoyed voting. Can I vote again? :D

Touta said...

well drum roll please... *drrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrm*
its a clear win for bloggerrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.

:D

i'll check later as well, in case haloscan or spank suddenly develop a cult following. :))

attawie said...

Hooray :D :D :D

la la stop checking, khila9 blogger :D

Lynnette In Minnesota said...

Touta,

unfortunatley obnoxiousness and ignorance easily leads into racism,---(I'll try JG's solution to the squishing problem. :) )

I think you are correct when you say that ignorance can lead to racism. Which is just another reason to strive to have a well educated populace.

But what about closed-mindedness? If one is not willing to even try to understand another person's point of view, does that not lead to discriminatory behavior?

Obnoxiousness lead to racism? Hmmm...I'm not quite sure on that one. I think racism can lead to obnoxiousness, yes. But I think you can be obnoxious without being racist.

I'm not claiming i'm not ignorant,----

This is good. Because I think everyone can learn something from other people. I admit to not knowing a whole lot about the Middle East and it's people. Which is one reason, among others, why I have been reading and commenting on Iraqi blogs. I want to try to understand the people better. And, you will understand I am sure, that I don't believe ignorance means stupidity. I have met some very intelligent people on these blogs who may be ignorant of my country, for example.

but i have to say that even personally, obnoxiousness or arrogance on my part has led to me stereotyping (racism), and so i need harder evidence. :P----

Really? I have never seen you behave obnoxiously, Touta. You have always behaved quite well. As for being arrogant, I haven't really seen that either. You have always seemed to attempt to listen and understand what others have been trying to say. As in this conversation we are having now. You have not shut me out, but engaged in an interesting discussion. Thank you. :)

In their writing styles, i think abbas and jeffrey couldn't be more different, and what i meant in similiarity is their patience problem with each other ;)----

Hmmm...writing styles, yes, I agree with you. I was thinking more along the lines of their using shock tactics at times to try to get a point across. I have a feeling that in real life they are not alike, personality wise, that is.

hahahah, he got off lightly i tell you.----

Well, they did end up breaking up. Just as well, for the sake of his poor head. :)

I once saw a women throw a mug, a glass and a knife at her husband... i almost laughed it looked so surreal.----

Ohhhhh, now that tops the frying pan thing! lol! Hope he was as good at ducking as Bush was. :D

I miss smiley's as well...wordpress you say... :)---

Yes, yes, and you can customize your smileys and be very creative...:P

mhmd said...

well well well, you certainly like arguing don't you T?
Me and your bro saw the same policemen btw.

good luck anywayz.

and yer, i was going to argue and annoy you, but really you shouldn't be bloggin or emailing or whatever you young kids do these days. WORK, FOOL! (otherwise you'll end up a female more annoying version of me).

mhmd said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Touta said...

attawie,
you're very subjective you know. :D

lynnette,
closed minds are definatly a large problem, which is why i tried (and failed) to bring structure to the discussion when it began, because neither side listened and preferred to just throw insults and anger about.
and yes, both use shock tactics, and both are good writers, at first i was kind of traumatised by both, but i'm used to their shock tactics now. :P

as for the poor guy, he ducked expertly. It was in the UK i recall, and we iraqis (well my family anyway)had the view of english having a stiff upper lip, don't show emotion, so i tried to act cold and calm as well, and when i saw that, it crashed me into the unrealistic-ness of stereotypes. :D
and Thank you too. :)

mhmd,
"you'll end up a female more annoying version of me"
oh really? I was under the impression you were a girl... :))
and thanks, i'll try my best.

attawie said...

Touta, mhmd

you two must be kidding!

lol and don't ask :D

Lynnette In Minnesota said...

JG,

Your incessant chatting has woken me up, woman!----

Bwahahahaha! Can't sleep your like away, JG. Gotta get up and smell the coffee, or Chai, if you prefer. :D

He's had an agenda from the start.----

And what would that be? I'm really curious on this one, JG, because I do look for that kind of thing. ;)

He's been great buddies with the Iraq The Minion set and been hostile to those who dare to blog about *bad* things!----

Has it only been hostility toward "bad" things or was it hostitility to an unbalanced post?

How dare Mohammed be so pessimistic eh!----

Well, frankly, I have noticed that pessimism in many Iraqis in the past. I say past, because there has been some change in that feeling in recent polls. But it was a natural reaction to events in Iraq ( all that head chopping and drilling going on, you know). I know, it's hard to think things will ever improve when they look so bad. Look at how everyone is so doom and gloom about the global economy. But there is nothing wrong in trying to look for positive things. And in point of fact, Mohammed has made attempts to show good things when he sees them.

He needed to be told what's what by a middle class armchair general sitting in the comfort of his safe and secure home in New York.----

But aren't we all guilty of that to some extent? Even you? I have never accused you of racism that I recall.

Trying to piss someone off who is already utterly miserable from living with the fear, uncertainty, and insecurity of a war zone.----

I don't always agree with Jeffrey, JG. But to shout racism because of this is a little extreme. I worry, you see, that that term is way overused. It dilutes its meaning.

I'm actually surprised you'd defend this, Lynnette.---

I think a discussion of racism and freedom of speech is something of importance to get into, JG. I admit to using Jeffrey shamelessly to bring it up, but it is a worthwhile topic.

P.S. Now you can go back to sleep if you wish. I see I have scared people off, and that was not my intent. :(

Touta said...

attawie,
joking about mhmd being a girl? hehehe. (I have exams etc etc does that explain anything?)

lynnette,
you haven't scared anyone off, promise...its just people are recovering from power commenting/power blogging. :D

attawie said...

na2aaa, I said don't ask :P

still laughing :))

Touta said...

attawie,
la walla gulee, otherwise, i'll interrogate you touta style ;)
:))

Lynnette In Minnesota said...

Touta,

...because neither side listened and preferred to just throw insults and anger about.----

*sigh* They do that a lot.

and yes, both use shock tactics, and both are good writers, at first i was kind of traumatised by both, but i'm used to their shock tactics now. :P---

ROTFL! I know what you mean! You should have seen my face when I ran into An Italian for the first time. After that, Jeffrey and the Kid were a breeze. :D

... english having a stiff upper lip, don't show emotion,----

Gotta be careful of all of that repressed emotion, Touta! You never know how it may be expressed. :P

...so i tried to act cold and calm as well,---

Sometimes, it's better to just act like you. :D

Gotta run, guys. See ya later. :)

Lynnette In Minnesota said...

Ooops, forgot...

Mhmd sounds cool. Sure you don't have something going with him? :P :D

Touta said...

lynnette,
"Gotta be careful of all of that repressed emotion, Touta! You never know how it may be expressed. :P"
hahaha, its why i'm so angry online :P

"Mhmd sounds cool. Sure you don't have something going with him? :P :D"
Dear God I'm insulted, he's kurdish!
And it would be wrong of the highest degree cos he's virtually my brother. :)

mhmd said...

to clear all whimsical ideas aside:

once lived a girl called touta. her mother had an aunt. the aunt married a kurdish guy. Mohammed came into being.
Mhmd is the cousin of touta's mother.

Make sense chavs and chavettes?

JG said...

Lynnette,

I will forgive you for waking me up! ;)

And what would that be? I'm really curious on this one, JG, because I do look for that kind of thing. ;)--------

I already summarised it. I could go on all day but don't have time. Jeffrey (and his fellow bloggers) tried very hard (but ultimately failed, thankfully) to discredit Riverbend, Raed Jarrar, and others who were anti-invasion/occupation, while cosying up to Iraq The Minion types. Claiming that Jeffrey's purpose was 'getting publicity for Iraqi bloggers' is laughable! So I was just correcting you on that completely erroneous claim.

One of Jeffrey's blogging buddies, 'Mr. Ghost' made fun of Ahmed (BlogIraq) before the poor guy was even cold in his grave. He joked that Ahmed had blogged from heaven, complaining that the 72 virgins never showed up.

Really funny, yeah. Right after a young man has died. Mr. Ghost continued on at 'IBC' without being brought to book by any of his fellow bloggers. THAT is how much they care about Iraqis. By the way, when he was alive they tried to discredit him too because they didn't like his opinions.

Has it only been hostility toward "bad" things or was it hostility to an unbalanced post?Unbalanced? Right! Because Iraq The Minion is really balanced. No, Lynette, it's nothing to do with balance. Bloggers aren't journalists, they are not obliged to be balanced. Also, they are not obliged to enable comments. It is entirely their prerogative.

But it was a natural reaction to events in Iraq ( all that head chopping and drilling going on, you know). --------

And all those bombs dropping from the sky, innocent people being detained and tortured, etc. You left these bits out. I wonder why!

But anyhow, yes it was a natural reaction to an awful situation that you and I can scarcely contemplate. So why is it ok to deliberately try to piss someone off who is living through such a nightmare situation? If Mohammed was pessimistic, this was entirely understandable.

But aren't we all guilty of that to some extent? Even you? I have never accused you of racism that I recall.
--------

No, I don't think I am guilty of it. I don't lecture bloggers and tell them what they should right/ how they should feel.

You have (correctly) never accused me of racism because I have never said anything remotely racist. That's because I'm not racist.

JG. But to shout racism because of this is a little extreme.--------

No it's not. I didn't shout anything. I said that this was racist, and it is:

"Satan's sandbox is only for those like yourself, Mohammed."
--------

"people like yourself"

What do you imagine he meant by this?

--------
I worry, you see, that that term is way overused. It dilutes its meaning. --------

I share your worry. It reminds me of people who call anyone that supports the Palestinian struggle anti-Semitic, eg the 'IBC' court jester; RhusRat.

I'm not saying Jeffrey is some KKK grand wizard. I'm just saying that that particular comment is (objectively) racist.

Some kind of loyalty to him, I believe, prevents you from agreeing with this quite obvious truth. But I don't think the inherent racism in that remark has passed you by, in fact I'm quite sure it hasn't. ;)

Jeffrey said...

JG,

If you can't see that Satan (or evil, or whatever you want to call it) has been walking in Iraq for the last six years, then you're a moron. Today, for example, there were two suicide attacks in Iraq. One of the attacks in Karada, from a woman wearing a vest packed with explosives, killed around 75 people. The suiciders were not attacking US forces; they were targeting average Iraqi citizens. Have you and Bruno high-fived each other yet over this great success? The so-called resistance that you two cream in your pants about has worked with the foreign jihadis since 2003. While many of them have been peeled away, it's obvious that there are still some dead-enders who don't mind if Iraqis die to bring down the current government.

Evil in the form of Islamic extremism is VERY REAL. I live in New York and saw what they're capable of right in front of me back in 2001, just as the Iraqi people have been suffering with the last six years.

*

JG said...

Satan's sandbox is only for those like yourself, Mohammed."--------


"those like yourself"

What did you mean?

Jeffrey said...

Touta,

I asked JG to take our discussion over to IBC, but he declined to to so. I waited as long as I could, but now I have to respond to that punk-ass.

Stand by. Your comments page counter is going to speed past 100 comments easily. We just have to wait here patiently as the Ba'athist fluffers and Muqty mutants start showing up. It could get very ugly.

*pounds fist into open hand*

Bring it on, mothers!

(By the way, I think this comment falls into the category of what Lynnette correctly labels my over-the-top attempts to stir up the mush-brains. Yes, even in my final days in the Iraqi blogosphere, battle-hardened, skin dirty and sweat-grimed, my sense of duty and purpose has not left me and I soldier on with a full clip, my eyes constantly scanning the horizon for targets.)

*

Jeffrey said...

JG,

Would you like to see the Ba'athist regime returned to power?

*

C.H. said...

Touta,

We are still waiting for the results, you know. Maybe you will order us a pizza while we wait?

:D

C.H. said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Jeffrey said...

Man, that didn't take long. I had barely finished writing my comment when JG, the first Ba'athist fellator and Muqty cheerleader, shows up.

Heh. Right on cue.

*whistles*

Here doggy. Want a nice treat? Sit, boy.

*

Jeffrey said...

C.H.,

I've been working on my final six-part series for the last week of IBC and it's just disgusting reviewing again the carnage wrought by the combined efforts of the local insurgents and the foreign jihadists. On August 29, 2003, two car bombs went off outside Imam Ali Mosque in Najaf, killing 83 people. It was just the first in six years of Arab suiciders blowing up Iraqi civilians. If that isn't evil and the work of Satan, then nothing is. Satan also showed up in New York, Madrid, London, and Bali, of course.

*

C.H. said...

"Mhmd is the cousin of touta's mother."


Interesting...my mom has a cousin who I am older than by a year. Its funny, even though the cousin is a generation ahead of me!

You and Touta are close to the same age, right?

C.H. said...

Its different with Iraq, Jeffrey...what literally makes vomit rise in my throat is when "antiwar" types go nuts over atrocities in Iraq as if it helps there deranged cause.

They get to say this...

"Bush lied people died so get the hell out!"

Screw them

Jeffrey said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Jeffrey said...

C.H.,

Its different with Iraq, Jeffrey--

Yes, it is. The scale and lethality of the diabolism exhibited there is difficult to even calculate. And we're talking about Muslims killing Muslims. So much for the vaunted brotherhood, I guess.

*

JG said...

Nice to see how much I've annoyed you, Jeffrey.

Come now, tell us how you couldn't possibly be racist as your family is like the United Nations!

LOL!

It doesn't surprise that you quickly turned to personal insult instead of picking up on any of the points I made.

Tell you what, if you can find one word I have ever written in support of any Ba'athists, or Al-Sadr, I'll buy you a copy of The O'Reilly Factor for Kids!

How's that?

Heh!

*walks out of the lobby smiling and exhaling cigar smoke*

Jeffrey said...

JG,

I know this might be hard for you to accept, but I don't follow your comments. You seem to be a newbie to the Iraqi blogosphere, so you don't have much a history. So how about if you yourself find a few of your comments in which you condemn the Ba'athists and Muqty? Okay?

Or we can make this very simple. Do you condemn the terrorists who killed so many Iraqi citizens today? It's a yes-or-no answer.

*

Jeffrey said...

JG,

Hey, I don't want the O'Reilly book, but I would like an "IBC T-Shirt."

Get Yer IBC Swag!!--

*

C.H. said...

IBC has a t-shirt?

JG said...

I don't follow your comments--------

Then why make unfounded accusations about me supporting Ba'athists or Al-Sadr? If it's not based on comments I've made, then what? Intuition? You wouldn't make a very good lawyer!


So how about if you yourself find a few of your comments in which you condemn the Ba'athists and Muqty? Okay?--------

Erm, no that's not ok. You made the accusation, the burden of proof is on you, which is unforunate beacause I have never in my life spoken or written a single word in support of either.

But continue on, call me a moron, say I support terrorists without backing any of it up.

People around here are pretty discerning. They can spot you for exactly what you are.

Heh.

Jeffrey said...

C.H.,

Yeah, ///RhusLancia put together a whole IBC swag department. My favorite is the Qom Qommunity Qollege T-shirt with Muqty picking his nose. Ha ha ha!

JG,

YES or NO.

C'mon, boy, you can do it!

*

Jeffrey said...

JG,

Did I call you "moron"? I don't remember that. Punk-ass? Yes. Ba'athist fluffer? Yep. Ba'athist fellator? Uh-huh. Muqty cheeleader? Yeah, I think I did.

Hey, but I'm sure I called you a moron at some point in the past few weeks. If I haven't, here's a preemptive strike: You dimwitted moron. I added "dimwitted" for free.

*

JG said...

Jeffrey,

Once you answer the question I posed @ 23 April 2009 19:40 (ie before your question for me) and provide evidence for your claims that I support Ba'athists and Al-Sadr, I'll be happy to answer your question!

*Blows a cigar smoke ring*

Touta said...

Jeffrey,
you seem to think that anyone against the war is baathist?

"Evil in the form of Islamic extremism is VERY REAL. I live in New York and saw what they're capable of right in front of me back in 2001, just as the Iraqi people have been suffering with the last six years". You are ridiculously mistaken if you think this has caused all the bombings, gunshots etc.
evil in the form of WAR is very very real. And i've seen what war is capable of in front of me too.

CH,
"Its different with Iraq, Jeffrey...what literally makes vomit rise in my throat is when "antiwar" types go nuts over atrocities in Iraq as if it helps there deranged cause.

Screw them"

How's it different? Its a war. And screw who exactly? People who are anti war have usually reached a point of intellect where they have had enough of death, politics and all other crap.

"One of Jeffrey's blogging buddies, 'Mr. Ghost' made fun of Ahmed (BlogIraq) before the poor guy was even cold in his grave. He joked that Ahmed had blogged from heaven, complaining that the 72 virgins never showed up" Too far.

C.H. said...

Touta,

I'm sorry for adding more explosive debate to your blog...its just that his has been an extremely difficult morning for me, watching the news and all. I just arrived at my campus and it was very hard just to get myself out of the house.

I have a lot of anger right now and I guess I just need to relax.

C.H. said...

Mr. Ghost's comment was definetely too far...I found it to be completely wrong and innappropiate.

Jeffrey said...

Touta,

You are ridiculously mistaken if you think this has caused all the bombings, gunshots etc.
evil in the form of WAR is very very real.
--

A great deal of the carnage brougth to Iraqis has come from suicide-bombers for whom their Islamic faith is central to their motives. Can you deny that? What motivated that woman in Karrada today to kill Iraqi men, women, and children just going about their business today? Why did she do it, Touta?

War is often necessary. I am not naive enough to think that war itself is evil. The world is a better place due to the sacrifices my Dad's generation made to defeat nazism and fascism in Europe and the military totalitarian regime in Japan. For the future of EVERYONE, especially Iraqis, Islamic fundamental fanatics must be destroyed. You cannot negotiate with them.

Your response?

*

JG said...

Mr. Ghost's comment was definetely too far...I found it to be completely wrong and innappropiate.--------

CH,

It was vile. How much contempt can one person have for innocent young life?

If it was an American murdered I submit his attitude would not have been so cavalier.

The fact that there was not a word of reproach from any of his blogging buddies speaks volumes about the kinds of people they are.

JG said...

Jeffrey,

Know your enemy. Recommended reading:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dying_to_Win

C.H. said...

JG, I agree...it was a disgusting comment and he never should have said that. I wish he had apologized but that guy doesn't fit in with IBC anyways.

JG said...

I disagree, Corey, I think he fits in just fine.

Jeffrey said...

To be honest, I don't remember exactly what Mister Ghost said. If he was joking about someone who had just died, then that's unacceptable, of course. At the same time, practically all of the Iraqi bloggers have been interviewed by Mister Ghost over the last five years, and he's done a lot to promote the Iraqi bloggers and find them new readers, as we all have at IBC.

Listen, I too have found some of his more recent posts strange, but he's been a very hardworking co-blogger and he can write whatever he wants to write. There has not been a single day over the last five years that one of us hasn't been working on a blog entry about the Iraqi blogosphere. We've posted close to 800 entries, many of them written after hours of research. I know that there were many times I stayed up very late at night researching and writing when I should have been sleeping.

If anyone here thinks that running a blog that covers the entire Iraqi blogosphere is easy, hey, be my guest. Blogspot is free, dudes. It just takes a lot of effort and passion.

So, even if you disagree with Mister Ghost, I would ask to you to check out all of his In T Views -- the range of people he's interviewed is fantastic.

*

Touta said...

CH,
"its just that his has been an extremely difficult morning for me".
at least you were only watching it.

Jeffrey,

if she's iraqi, then she's tired of living her 'life', and wanted to commit suicide without being condemned to hell.
If she's not iraqi then you're right, it may have been fundamentalism.

You and CH may easily argue that war is justifiable, but have you lived here? Have you seen anything other than the Twin Towers fall? Have you suffered? You accept the sacrifice of your father's and grandfather's generation, as i accept my grandparents and parents choice, but until you see your family suffering, until you are prepeared to live in such a state like Iraq and carry guns, and watch everything collapse around you, then I don't think I can accept your "War is often necessary".
I'm not stupid enough to think that one day there will be no more wars and we'll all skip to work throwing flowers to passers by out of thatched baskets, but at the same time i can't accept that this war was right, as i can't accept that this war was useless at the same time, but there was countless ways that the forces of the world could have ousted saddam and baathists.

"You cannot negotiate with them." I believe that Jews couldn't be negotiated with either.
In your view islamic fundamentalists must be destroyed, in the view of arabs, jewish fundamentalists must be destroyed. All we need now is for China to decide Africa needs to be rid of its fundamentalists, and we could have a jolly good time killing each other.

Jeffrey said...

Just for a taste, here are a few of Mister Ghost's interviews:

Hayder al-Khoie (Eye Raki).

Omar Fekeiki (24 Steps).

Nadz.

*

Touta said...

ah, ok, he's not talentless, but i still think what he said was highly disprespectful and inappropriate.

Jeffrey said...

Touta,

if she's iraqi, then she's tired of living her 'life', and wanted to commit suicide without being condemned to hell.--

Huh? If you're tired of life, why strap on a suicide-vest and kill other people. I don't get it. Explain.

*

C.H. said...

"at least you were only watching it."


Please don't say that...I would trade passports with you in a second if it meant I could make a difference.

Jeffrey said...

Touta,

but there was countless ways that the forces of the world could have ousted saddam and baathists.--

Sorry, Touta, I can't agree with you at all on this point, and I believe most Iraqis would admit that the only way that Saddam and his tyrannical regime were going to be removed was by extreme outside force.

*

Jeffrey said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Jeffrey said...

Touta,

ah, ok, he's not talentless, but i still think what he said was highly disprespectful and inappropriate.--

Now that I agree with.

*

C.H. said...

"until you are prepeared to live in such a state like Iraq and carry guns, and watch everything collapse around you, then I don't think I can accept your "War is often necessary"."


Touta, I would if I could...I have been in violent conflict zones before too. Don't think even for a second that I would prefer to be here in a country full of people who are seemingly ignorant about the world around them.

JG said...

Corey,

With all due respect, why don't you go to Iraq and be a reporter or something, if you're so keen?

Touta,

but until you see your family suffering, until you are prepeared to live in such a state like Iraq and carry guns, and watch everything collapse around you, then I don't think I can accept your "War is often necessary"--------

I agree. It rings hollow when it's not you paying the price.

The problem with the 'we have to destroy the fundamentalists' talk is that you can't put a noose around an idea.

Check out Prof. Pape's book, Jeffrey. I posted a link to it which has a good synopsis. Suicide terrorism follows a stategic logic, just like any other terrorism or violence.

If you think you can just kill all the terrorists you are doomed to failure. Kill one and ten more pop up. It might make you feel good - talking tough - but as a srategy it's about as intelligent as 'fight the terrorists over there so we don't have to fight them at home', and makes even less sense.

Jeffrey said...

JG,

I think a variety of methods are currently being used to reduce the virulence of Islamic terrorism around the world. Killing or arresting terrorists is just one of them. We need to use all of them.

*

C.H. said...

"With all due respect, why don't you go to Iraq and be a reporter or something, if you're so keen?"


Give me a year JG...I am already planning a trip to the Middle East at the end of the year.

C.H. said...

The best way to stop terrorism is to work with the people who are being oppressed and help the population term the tables on it. That's what has benefited Iraq. I agree JG...killing "all terrorists" is impossible.

And I have read Pape's articles too.

Touta said...

Jeffrey,
you would be suprised to see how much depression is here, and you honestly cannot blame them. But of course, many people strap on bombs and blow themselves up because Iraq is not going anywhere, and well people have lost hope. In times where all is well, and things improve, less bombings, but when the government sit amongst their corruption and refuse to change, people resort to meaningless violence.

Yes, extreme outside force. I never said i disagreed with fighting, i disagree with *war*. There's a big difference. Think of Che's life, and how the US were involved there, and you'll get what i mean.

"We need to use all of them". Exactly how do you tell which people are islamic fundamentalists? Arrest anyone with a beard over 10cm? Check for turbans?
Bring on the star badges!!

CH,
"Don't think even for a second that I would prefer to be here in a country full of people who are seemingly ignorant about the world around them".
Not all or most americans are ignorant. It is human nature that is ignorant, and this doesn't change whichever country you go to.
And really, you should just be thankful for your life and enjoy it. Going to dangerous places for journalism/aid is one thing, but to permanently live in such places..you shouldn't wish for it.
And there'd be no way i'd trade my nationality :D It's a great way to guilt trip anyone into letting you do anything you want...:))

JG,
"If you think you can just kill all the terrorists you are doomed to failure. Kill one and ten more pop up. It might make you feel good - talking tough - but as a srategy it's about as intelligent as 'fight the terrorists over there so we don't have to fight them at home', and makes even less sense."

I couldn't agree with you more on the points you make, people often think that violence and an alpha male display of power solves all, and they do nothing apart from sit comfortably talking about how great their approach is. they fail to see the losses because they are too self righteous basically.

C.H. said...

Touta,

I think that what is happening right now in Iraq is a coordinated effort to break the will of the Iraqi people as the US draws down. I highly doubt that today's attacks were organized by depressed Iraqis, but rather by Saudis, Egyptians, or other foreigners bent on making Maliki's government look bad.

I've read some horrific stories about female suicide bombers. Sometimes, AQI attacks them and then shames then into carrying out an attack. Its the epitome of evil.

JG said...

And really, you should just be thankful for your life and enjoy it. Going to dangerous places for journalism/aid is one thing, but to permanently live in such places..you shouldn't wish for it.--------

Corey,

I agree with Touta here. San Fran is a cool city with lots going for it. Also, it is safe and secure. I can't see why you'd want to swap places with Touta.

If you do end up in Iraq as a journalist, all I can say is BE CAREFUL!

JG said...

Jeffrey,

I think a variety of methods are currently being used to reduce the virulence of Islamic terrorism around the world.------

Pape's argument is that it's not "Islamic terrorism". The vast majority of suicide terrorism is:

1. Part of an organised campaign
2. Motivated by political, not religioius, concerns.

Terrorists use Islam as an excuse. The LTTE have carried out more sucicide attacks than another other group and they are Marxist-Leninist!

C.H. said...

JG,

If you are someone who loves seeing great sights, enjoys beautiful weather, and wants to have fun, then San Francisco and the USA are the greatest places you can possibly be. I will stand by that.

I want to travel though, and when I read about atrocities like what happened in Iraq today I get really angry knowing that I am half a world away and most of the people in my city don't even pay any attention to it.

Ideally, America would be a great place for someone like Dr. Mohammed from Last of Iraqis to live...he has a wife and a daughter and wants to have a sucessful practice...there is no better place than America to do that. It would be his "American Dream". Its not the same for me...I've had to save up a lot of funds (remember, I'm only 20, lol) this past year just to get ready for a trip to the Mideast....I can't help but think it would be much easier if I were in London or Dublin, given the close proximity.

C.H. said...

BTW JG,

I have posted a lot about the LTTE on my blog...perhaps you have seen my posts.

C.H. said...

Touta...you might have a record with comments here!!!

JG said...

when I read about atrocities like what happened in Iraq today I get really angry knowing that I am half a world away and most of the people in my city don't even pay any attention to it.--------

But that's natural. Everyone is completely de-sensitised to violence at this stage.

Look, during the 'Troubles' in the North here, people in Dublin paid little attention to bombs going off in Belfast and Derry, and as you know, the distance between the cities is only a few miles! I think it's natural. You stop being shocked after a while, when the news is the same each day.

I just don't really understand your motivation for going to Iraq. Is it for journalism or to help in some way?

When it comes to travel, like you I'm curious about other cultures. I've been to the Middle East and plan to go back in October/November. But Iraq is very dangerous. It's not somewhere you should go without very good reason.

I have posted a lot about the LTTE on my blog...perhaps you have seen my posts.--------

I haven't seen them. I'll take a look when time allows. The LTTE are a nasty outfit, totally brutal. But they prove that it's not necessarily religion that motivates suicide terrorism.

C.H. said...

"Is it for journalism or to help in some way?"


Its for both...I want to use my ability to write to try and help.

JG said...

Corey,

I'm taking a loan from the bank that entitles me to one free roundtrip ticket to the US or Canada!

So looks like I'll be over that part of the world again this summer. I'm torn between New York and Montréal.

Oh, it has to be either east coast US, or Canada.

C.H. said...

So then no San Fran? That's too bad...I'll be 21 then and we could have a beer, haha :)

JG said...

LOL! Shame. Maybe another time/place.

You might be in Nepal at the time anyway.

Yeah for some reason it has to be east coast.

JG said...

It's ironic. Touta writes a post about what comments we want: blogger, haloscan, or spank (still not convinced that exists!)... and the number of comments here suggests that haloscan might be best because blogger takes ages to load once it goes over about 100 comments.

Touta said...

hahaha, very ironic.
And now blogger comments is messed up with comments overlapping each other...i got 'i'll be 21 be in Nepal coast.' from a mixture of two comments.
Cool. :D

Lynnette In Minnesota said...

Good discussion going. I'm running late so don't have time to comment except for:

to clear all whimsical ideas aside: Mhmd

Ahhhh, you spoiled my fun. :P Oh well, maybe I can fix her up with Abbas... :D

JG said...

Lynnette,

Let's fix you up with someone! ;)

Maybe Pete$!

:)

C.H. said...

Oh yes, Pete S...he seems nice, but he's kind of the "Anti-JG"

Both of you are in Ireland though...any chance of you two haveing a pint? :)

JG said...

CH,

Last year I met up with a conservative blogger from New York who was here in Dublin on business.

We had raging arguments on one of the Irish blogs going back years! Politically, we could not be more different.

Thing is, we sat down in one of Dublin's oldest pubs (The Long Hall, a great spot) and had a great chat and a lot of Guinness, and we got along just fine.

I disagree with Pete$ on religion, politics, and probably most other things too, but I'm sure he's a decent guy.

C.H. said...

That is a great thing, JG, when people can set politics aside and be friends :)

When I was in Dublin, I met up with a friend who disagrees with almost everything I believe in, but we had an awesome time together...one night I had 5 pints of Guinness!

(2 more the next night)

Haha :D

JG said...

Good stuff. It's good for you, you know! ;)

I don't even want to mention how many pints I'd put away in a night!

Touta said...

lynnette,
come now, you know i prefer the old bordering senile types, preferably who have residence in a good country ;)
:))

And i think JG has a point there, although i think lynnette already has her eyes set on someone...
"I know what you mean! You should have seen my face when I ran into An Italian for the first time".

hehehehe.

JG said...

Hearty LOL!

Lynnette and Italian!

He already calls her little pet names like 'woody critter' and 'draculette in Minnesota'... even 'the Beast in Minnesota'!!!

:)))

C.H. said...

You know Touta, you never did answer my question about the polls...will they be closing soon?!

All of us are anxiously awaiting the results :)

Will it be a democratic choice or a unilateral decision? Stay tuned to Touta's blog to find out....(exciting music plays)

Jeffrey said...

You guys want a taste of Satan's brew? How about the details behind the female suicide-bomber in Karrada on Thursday? From the NYTimes:

She wore a black abaya and, like many of the other women, was walking with a child, in her case a young girl, according to Iraqi Army and police officials who interviewed survivors at the scene.

The woman stood out, the witnesses said, only because she began nudging her way through the crowd, which had been waiting patiently for the bags of flour, bottles of cooking oil and other staples that the police were handing out. The witnesses said she tugged the child, who looked about 5 years old, along with her.

Once she reached the center of the crowd, she set off the blast, with explosives that the police believe she hid under her flowing clothes.
--

And JG, I really doubt that she yelled "MARX AKBAR" when she detonated her vest as she held the child's hand next to her.

*

JG said...

Jeffrey,

Horrible story. I too doubt that she shouted "Marx Akbar".

My point, however, stands. My point, simply, was that religion is not generally the motivation of suicide terrorism. In almost every case their goals are 'of this world'.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dying_to_Win

Take a look. This is the most comprhensive research on suicide terrorism yet carried out. Suicide terrorism is appalling, but not irrational.

JG said...

In short, suicide attacks in Iraq are no more "Islamic terrorism" than car bombs in Belfast are "Catholic terrorism".

Jeffrey said...

JG,

I agree that often the motivation for suicide-bombers is political in nature, even if it has a religious accent. Yep, we do agree there. Islamic extremism is without question a mixed political and religious movement -- particularly so for Islam, due to the fact that in pure Islamic fundamentalism there should be no separation between religion and politics in the first place.

*

Jeffrey said...

JG,

I'm curious. What do you think her "this-wordly" concerns were? I'm asking this sincerely because, to be honest, I'm wondering why she did it and why she drug a 5-year-old along with her. Was this a sectarian issue? Was she a Sunni? What do you think?

*

JG said...

Jeffrey,

Firstly, I have absolutely no idea why she did it, what her sect was, or why she took a child with her.

What do you think her "this-wordly" concerns were?Well, the worldly concerns come from those who sent her. Like I said, the overwhelming majority of suicide attacks are part of a campaign with specific political goals. Religion is used as a tool to rally the troops, just like nationalism is used in other contexts (and in conventional state armies).

As I say, I know zero about the individual case, but if she is an individual acting alone (and motivated wholly by religion) then she is an exception to the general rule.

Jeffrey said...

JG,

Thanks for the link to "Dying to Win." I just read through the Wikipedia entry, and it looks like I'll have to check out the book itself. Looks good.

Naturally, I've read a number of books related to the topic, the two best so far being Peter Bergen's "Holy War Inc." and Paul Berman's "Terror and Liberalism." Berman's book is especially well-written and argued.

*

JG said...

I'll take a look at those, Jeffrey.

I had to read Dying to Win for my work. I rushed through it and skipped some so I'm going to get back and read it properly.

It has received great reviews from other scholars.

Lynnette In Minnesota said...

JG,

Jeffrey (and his fellow bloggers) tried very hard (but ultimately failed, thankfully) to discredit Riverbend, Raed Jarrar, and others who were anti-invasion/occupation, while cosying up to Iraq The Minion types.---

Discredit? You mean by voicing their views of the Iraqi bloggers? But, JG, that raises the supposition that those reading their views are unable to think and evaluate those bloggers for themselves. I am quite capable of forming my own views, thank you.

Claiming that Jeffrey's purpose was 'getting publicity for Iraqi bloggers' is laughable!----

I guess the only real way to tell is if the Iraqi bloggers gained traffic through IBC or not, isn't it? I do believe they did leave even those bloggers they disagreed with up on their sidebar.

'Mr. Ghost' made fun of Ahmed (BlogIraq)...----

Something I found just as distasteful as you, JG. Even though I had never read Ahmed.

I might say that some of the Iraqi bloggers have kept company with people I have found distasteful. *shrug* So?

By the way, when he was alive they tried to discredit him too because they didn't like his opinions.----

Like calling him "minion" or something?

*sigh*

You know, we could go on like this for ever, JG. But the real crux of the matter is that we are all coming from different views of the war in Iraq, its purpose, its cause, and maybe even its ending perhaps.

You don't like Iraq the Model because they supported the war. Jeffrey had problems with Riverbend because she was a Saddam supporter. *shrug*

Bloggers aren't journalists, they are not obliged to be balanced.----

And neither are commenters.

Also, they are not obliged to enable comments. It is entirely their prerogative.----

I agree totally. But, if you are going to espouse political views and not allow dissenting views to be heard, then one assumption could be that you are merely a propagandist for some group or other. It may not necessarily be true, but it is a natural reaction to that situation.

And all those bombs dropping from the sky, innocent people being detained and tortured, etc. You left these bits out. I wonder why!----

Maybe because those things could be stopped, but there was no telling about the others. But I would agree that all of those things would have contributed to Iraq civilians pessimism regarding the whole mess.

So why is it ok to deliberately try to piss someone off who is living through such a nightmare situation?----

Never said it was. I said I don't always agree with Jeffrey and that is so. Just like I am sure he doesn't always agree with me.

I don't lecture bloggers and tell them what they should right/ how they should feel.----

No, just commenters. lol!

My point, simply, was that religion is not generally the motivation of suicide terrorism. In almost every case their goals are 'of this world'.----

I would agree. It is a thirst for power by those who pull the strings that is the motivator. The fools who are actually blowing themselves up certainly may be of an extreme religious bent, but they are not the ones in charge. They are the "useful tools". *cough* *cough* If I may borrow a phrase from Saddam.

JG said...

But, JG, that raises the supposition that those reading their views are unable to think and evaluate those bloggers for themselves.--

No it doesn't. As I clearly stated, the effort to discredit was not successful.

I am quite capable of forming my own views, thank you.--

You're welcome!

I guess the only real way to tell is if the Iraqi bloggers gained traffic through IBC or not, isn't it?--

No, you're wrong there. The Iraqi bloggers may have gained traffic, but that would not determine Jeffrey's motivation one way or another.

The flowers in my garden may brighten up someone's day who is passing by. It doesn't follow that I planted the flowers for this reason.

I might say that some of the Iraqi bloggers have kept company with people I have found distasteful. *shrug* So?--

Lynnette, that's a facile simile. Mr. Ghost's remarks were highly offensive. Many commenters came on the blog to say so, but not a word from the fellow bloggers. I thought that was a poor reflection on them.

You don't like Iraq the Model because they supported the war. Jeffrey had problems with Riverbend because she was a Saddam supporter. *shrug*
--

Wrong on both counts. And, by the way, to my mind nothing Riverbend ever said suggested she was a Saddam supporter.

Perhaps you could point me to something she wrote which makes you sure enough to write it here.

Since you're "quite capable of forming your own views" maybe you could tell me exactly why you think she supported Saddam.

Now then....

What about a bind date with you and An Italian?!?!?!

:)

Lynnette In Minnesota said...

Touta,

they fail to see the losses because they are too self righteous basically.----

Oh, Touta, so not true. There are two incidents that have remained fresh in my mind ever since I heard about them. While I supported the removal of Saddam Hussein, and hopefully the regime he created, I did not ever want to see such tragic things happen. And they still make me sad.

come now, you know i prefer the old bordering senile types, preferably who have residence in a good country ;)----

Ahhh, so I should look in our local senior citizen highrise to find a prospect for you, eh? :D

Let's fix you up with someone! ;) JG

And i think JG has a point there, Touta

Aha! I'm being ganged up on, I see. Turn about is fair play, hmmmm? lol!

I'll have to watch what I start in the future. :D



Gotta run, JG. I see you have another comment up for me. I'll have to answer later, sorry.

Jeffrey said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Jeffrey said...

JG,

No, you're wrong there. The Iraqi bloggers may have gained traffic, but that would not determine Jeffrey's motivation one way or another.--

This is just wrong. From day one we've been excerpting and pointing readers to all the Iraqi bloggers. I found so much of interest in the Iraqi blogosphere. I wanted to share that enthusiasm with others. Here, take a look for yourself at just one month of my blog entries. Check out all the various Iraqi bloggers I link to and whose entries I summarize:

Iraqi Bloggers Central: June, 2004.--

In that month I probably link to twenty-five or thirty different Iraqi bloggers, often excerpting a chunk from their blog entry to give the English reader a feel for that day's entry. Yes, I have my own views and interpretations and sense of humor, but I have always felt that conflict and differences of opinion are normal in life.

*

Jeffrey said...

JG,

Not to mention all of the interviews we've posted of Iraqi bloggers, or summary appreciations like these two:

Chikitita's Return.--

Shaggy Daze--

Both are really fine and unique Iraqi bloggers.

And here's a secret, JG. I cannot count the number of Iraqi bloggers who have contacted me and personally thanked me. Sorry, that's the truth. Now, of course, some Iraqi bloggers would like to see me flame-broiled on an open spit. But hey, that's life in all its variety.

*

JG said...

Jeffrey,

If they hang about long enough they realise what you're really like. It wasn't that long ago Touta was thanking you for posting stuff from her blog on yours. Today - over at Abbas' blog - she sees what you're really like. You don't give a stuff about the Iraqi bloggers, or Iraqis generally. I'd have more respect for you if you were just honest about it.

You are irrationally nationalist and you get a hard-on from violence and explosions (as long as it's 'your boys' pulling the trigger).

If you were fifteen years old I might give you a pass, but.... you know the rest...

Jeffrey said...

JG,

I have my ways of getting people to respond from a little deeper down.

Heh heh.

And yes, it's a technique with some success.

I am NOT a choir boy, never said I was.

*

Jeffrey said...

JG,

If you were fifteen years old I might give you a pass, but.... you know the rest...--

You guys are really cute when your cheeks gets so red!

*

JG said...

You guys are really cute when your cheeks gets so red!--

You wish! It would take a great deal more than that to redden these cheeks.

Your 'technique' is transparent.

Jeffrey said...

JG,

Your 'technique' is transparent.--

Its transparency does not diminish its efficacy.

Touta did speak a little more from the gut than usual, don't you think?

*

C.H. said...

Where is Touta anyway?

Jeffrey said...

C.H.,

I think she's sticking pins in a little doll she calls "Jeffrey."

Ouch! I just felt a strange pain in my back.

Touta, was that you?

*

Touta said...

lynnette.
okay, hahahaha, i've forgotten all points i was going to make because of this whole match making buisness. :P

JG,
"the overwhelming majority of suicide attacks are part of a campaign with specific political goals. Religion is used as a tool to rally the troops, just like nationalism is used in other contexts (and in conventional state armies)."
i never actually thought of it this way, but the more i think about it, the more it is more psychological warfare than anything.

Jeffrey,
"And here's a secret, JG. I cannot count the number of Iraqi bloggers who have contacted me and personally thanked me. Sorry, that's the truth. Now, of course, some Iraqi bloggers would like to see me flame-broiled on an open spit".
no one said that you haven't been advertising/making fun of/arguing with iraqi bloggers,
and no iraqi would flame broil you alive. We're not that savage and we never will be.
we prefer barbecues.

CH,
results can be seen by the view button.



good day/evening/night to all etc.
:))

Touta said...

Jeffrey,
come on, like i'd aim for your neck. There's many more painful points.
*continues with needle*

JG said...

I must admit I've voted for Spank a few times just to make it a bit closer! ;)

Jeffrey said...

Touta,

no one said that you haven't been advertising/making fun of/arguing with iraqi bloggers--

Thanks. I admit up front that I can be a royal pain in the ass, but at the same time I really do appreciate the variety of the Iraqi bloggers.

and no iraqi would flame broil you alive. We're not that savage and we never will be.
we prefer barbecues.
--

Hey, hold it. You mean you would prefer to BARBECUE me? Ouch! Okay, I guess I deserved that.

come on, like i'd aim for your neck. There's many more painful points.--

Yes, there are. Hey, Touta, you know, now that I think about it, you're a great person, and I really didn't mean everything I said before. Friends?

Heh heh.

*

Touta said...

JG,
I was wondering which '6' people had voted for it. :))

Jeffrey,
"Yes, there are. Hey, Touta, you know, now that I think about it, you're a great person, and I really didn't mean everything I said before. Friends?

Heh heh."
hahaha, here, i painted you a picture of flowers and peace, its even got people from all over the world holding hands.

Jeffrey said...

Touta,

hahaha, here, i painted you a picture of flowers and peace, its even got people from all over the world holding hands.--

*smiling uneasily as he holds the large painting of flowers and smiling people holding hands*

You want me to put this on the wall of my living room?! Ummmm, okay, tomorrow morning -- I promise -- I'll go to the hardware store and buy one of those picture-hanger things to put in the wall. Let me just set this in the next room, all right?

*

Memnon said...

I was another of the "Spank 6", but I didn't vote for it on a lark. I felt it was a cause to get behind.

JG said...

Touta,

I only voted for it twice, so there are others!

Touta said...

memnon,
i'm trying to figure out if your 'cause to get behind' is referencing something else. :))

JG said...

Hahahaha :)

Lynnette In Minnesota said...

JG,

Me: I might say that some of the Iraqi bloggers have kept company with people I have found distasteful. *shrug* So?----

JG: Lynnette, that's a facile simile. Mr. Ghost's remarks were highly offensive. Many commenters came on the blog to say so, but not a word from the fellow bloggers. I thought that was a poor reflection on them.----

Oh no, JG, not facile at all. Look at what you just said and turn it around a little and you may see what I mean.

Me: You don't like Iraq the Model because they supported the war. Jeffrey had problems with Riverbend because she was a Saddam supporter. *shrug*--

JG: Wrong on both counts.---

Really? You don't mind if someone supported the war then? And Jeffrey didn't have problems with Riverbend because she was a Saddam supporter?

And, by the way, to my mind nothing Riverbend ever said suggested she was a Saddam supporter.---

You have a right to your opinion, JG. Just like I do.

Perhaps you could point me to something she wrote which makes you sure enough to write it here.----

You mean like, "I supported Saddam"? lol! Nope, can't do that. I never said she wasn't intelligent. :D

Btw, Riverbend was probably one of the first Iraqi bloggers I had ever read. Her proficiency in English was wonderful and she had a gift for writing. She was well trained. It was too bad that she didn't seem to be well versed in how all of the people of Iraq were living.

What about a bind date with you and An Italian?!?!?!----

lol! But, if it's a blind date, how will I really know it's An Italian? :P

JG said...

Oh no, JG, not facile at all. Look at what you just said and turn it around a little and you may see what I mean.--

You'll have to help me, I don't see what you mean at all.

I'm amazing you can't bring yourself to agree that Mr. Ghost's fellow bloggers should have made their feeling clear on what he wrote. That's all I'm saying. Seem pretty uncontroversial to me.

Really? You don't mind if someone supported the war then?--

I dislike their views, not because they're pro-war, which I consider an immoral position, but because they think it's acceptable for Iraq to become client state of America.

You mean like, "I supported Saddam"? lol! Nope, can't do that. I never said she wasn't intelligent. :D--

You made the accusation. But it seems you can't back it up. It it intuition that tells you she supported Saddam or is it something she wrote? If it's the latter, then please point me to which parts.

Her proficiency in English was wonderful and she had a gift for writing.--

Totally agree. Even if you disagree with her, she is an outstanding writer. I even bought her book a few years back. ;)

It was too bad that she didn't seem to be well versed in how all of the people of Iraq were living.--

Not sure what that means.

lol! But, if it's a blind date, how will I really know it's An Italian? :PI'm sure if you organise to be in the same place at a given time, the chemistry will lead you to each other!

:))

Lynnette In Minnesota said...

JG,

You'll have to help me, I don't see what you mean at all.----

It's ancient history. I don't feel like raking over the coals.

I'm amazing you can't bring yourself to agree that Mr. Ghost's fellow bloggers should have made their feeling clear on what he wrote.----

Maybe I do. But see above.

...they think it's acceptable for Iraq to become client state of America.----

Is that your take on their viewws? Now I don't see that at all. I rather think they would like Iraq to be an independent country that could stand as a partner with the U.S. On a par with France or Germany.

You made the accusation. But it seems you can't back it up. It it intuition that tells you she supported Saddam or is it something she wrote?---

Subtlety flies right over your head, JG! lol!

Never mind, it's not really important anymore. :)

JG said...

You disappoint me, Lynnette.

If you don't want to talk about it, fine. But don't slander someone if you can't back it up.

I've read all the rumours about Riverbend, as you have. But that's all they are, rumours.

JG said...

Subtlety flies right over your head, JG! lol!--

You'll have to do better than that! ;)

Lynnette In Minnesota said...

But don't slander someone if you can't back it up.---

From this statement I take it that you didn't agree with those who supported Saddam?

You'll have to do better than that! ;)----

Why? Don't you like puzzles, JG? :)

JG said...

From this statement I take it that you didn't agree with those who supported Saddam?And you are right in that. But my point stands, it is unfair to say Jeffrey didn't like her because she supported Saddam when you don't really know that she did.

By the way, I replied to your comment on 'IBC' about the book: On Hundred Days in Baghdad.

I really enjoyed that book and wonder what happened to Asne's minder afterwards...

Lynnette In Minnesota said...

it is unfair to say Jeffrey didn't like her because she supported Saddam when you don't really know that she did.----

Ahhh, but that was my take on why I thought Jeffrey didn't like her. Of course, he must speak for himself on the matter.

Yes, I also happened to think she was pro-Saddam. As to why, that has to do with the timing of her posts, the over all content of her posts, and her writing style and ability. Perhaps, you would like to tell me why you don't think she was pro-Saddam?

I really enjoyed that book and wonder what happened to Asne's minder afterwards...----

I wonder that myself, sometimes. I left that book feeling very sorry for her. Especially as she was the kind of person Saddam would have referred to as "a useful tool".

No doubt her name is rather common in Iraq. *gives JG an amused look*

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